Jillian Ryan – When Revenue Success Does NOT Equate to Profit Success

After spending a decade advising Fortune 100 clients on how to conduct and facilitate responsible investment in Africa, Jillian wanted to do more to support entrepreneurs in these emerging markets. Blending Jillian's business expertise with her penchant for fine paper products, Marie Mae became her vehicle for making a difference in the world.
While launching Marie Mae, Jillian realized starting a business involves far more than the theories she learned in business school. This is why the Marie Mae Business School focuses on providing practical business training taught by people who have started businesses themselves.
Marie Mae is more than a simple “give back” company. From our vendors, to our customers and clients, to the people in our business school, Marie Mae equips each of our stakeholders to make a sustainable impact through business.

Connect with Jillian:
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Our corporate gifting service, helping companies get strategic with their gifting – and we will have a special discount code for In the Trenches listeners to be found at www.mariemae.com/inthetrenches.

Michael King: [00:00:00] Jillian Ryan, thank you so much for joining me today.

Jillian Ryan: [00:00:04] Thank you for having me.

Michael King: [00:00:07] We just, right before we started recording, had a little bit of an awkward thing with the door man, and we were talking about the weather, so it's a little bit awkward right now, but we're going to get into Jillian. I met you last year at a coworking space and you were telling me about

I think you had just been on a featured, on a nationally syndicated program and externally, everything looked like it was great. You were getting all this publicity, but, you told me pretty quick after we met that the reality was that the business wasn't profitable, that cash flows were a nightmare.

You were worried about everything falling apart, and then to make things worse, the coronavirus hits and it's the best your business has ever been because you made a pretty massive

Jillian Ryan: [00:00:55] supply chain is shut down.

Michael King: [00:00:57] So your supply chain is shut down. I can't wait to hear the details about how you go from really bad to really good as it was, as a result of the Corona virus in your supply chain shutting down.

But before we get into the, you know what's going on right now. Take us back, tell us a little bit about you and your background and how you got to where you are today.

Jillian Ryan: [00:01:15] So I actually didn't remotely do this. I was a geopolitical risk consultant in DC for 10 years. So not remotely notebooks.

So we basically helped fortune 100 companies when they were going into emerging markets. So I worked a lot in Africa, helping like Exxon and Google and stuff when they were going into Africa, and how do they mitigate risk. And so that got me really interested in the social impact side. Once I saw these, I mean, typically you don't think of Exxon Mobile as a company that's wanting to do good, but we kept seeing they were trying and couldn't figure out exactly at the community level how to make an impact, and they couldn't find good partners.

They couldn't find good businesses on the ground. So it really got me into wanting to do basically some business skills boot camps. Um, and some of the places I had been in Rwanda, so I had started doing consulting on my own, moved back to Texas. I was like, I want to do one of these business boot camps.

Was too stubborn to go after a government grant and decided, Oh, I'm just gonna launch a product company as a side hustle to fund doing just one of these business boot camps. Um, so that was back in 2015. Okay. Um, launched it, had enough to go to Rwanda to work with the sewing cooperative there. Um, after two months, it was amazing.

And once I started digging into the curriculum of the business skills that were being taught at a lot of these types of things, I realized how fluffy it was. And mostly it was taught by people that had only been in the nonprofit world and they weren't being taught by people that had actually been in business and had built a business and talked about the perseverance side of entrepreneurship, um, and to thinking outside the box and all of that kind of stuff.

So once I saw how useful that piece of it was, I came back and was like, okay, I better make sure that this is an actual real business. So I came back, It’s still kind of as a side hustle for a few years. We ended up landing a huge fish two years in. I'm talking about a big subscript, the biggest subscription box out of California.

And they're like, we'd like to buy 300,000 boxes of stationary. And again, I was an ecom international business major, zero clue how you mass produce something or finance it. I hadn't even bono that one. I signed that deal.  So anyways, but again, I had learned enough. You ask those questions later and you sign it and you get it done and I did that. It was amazing. Realized that scale, this business really does work. And so that was when we kind of started staffing up.

I hired an operations manager, started hiring more consistent freelancers. We ended up getting into Ellen's box, um, her be kind quarterly box last December, which was great. We had a PR.

Jillian Ryan: [00:04:14] they were amazing.

Michael King: [00:04:15] You got into, what was it now?

Jillian Ryan: [00:04:18] Her be kind quarterly box. She does a quarterly subscription box.

So we did a kindness planner for them. Um, but again, they approached us, which was crazy. Um, we've been very blessed in how much has come to us versus us having to go out for it. So that was how I also knew the concept was there. Um. The concept's there are people like the give back make sense to them.

Because we now teach business classes to trafficking survivors here in Dallas. Last year we made a pivot towards corporate into where now I would say 95% of what we do is corporate gifting. And that's also I think where all of this is coming. Because we were starting to experience hyper-growth probably Q four of last year when we met.

And that's when I realized. Um, our margins were not working. I was like, we're going to go out of business from quarters and say, wait a second. I kept thinking the more orders we got and the more revenues that we got, the better off we would be.

Michael King: [00:05:21] Why wasn't it working?

Jillian Ryan: [00:05:23] Shipping was killing us, killing us.

We weren't ordering in large enough amounts. So all of our production that we do, it was really important to me that everything was done ethically. Like it was made. All the paper products are made here in the US all of the artists and products are made with artists and groups around the world. So we can't particularly compete on the Chinese manufacturing prices.

We can definitely compete on quality, so it was all of those. But with the notebook, you're still limited based on what a consumer is willing to pay. So it's not like I could just keep raising these prices. And so hands down our bestsellers are spiral notebooks, which is what we have hands down the worst margins on always, like drives me insane.

But again, when you're ordering 200 of something versus those big subscription boxes, we're ordering six 30,000 of something. Like especially with paper, there's such a difference in the margin. Anyways, so shipping was killing us. Margins were killing us.

Michael King: [00:06:27] Free shipping?

Jillian Ryan: [00:06:28] We were doing free shipping.  Was that you that told me? I did get rid of that. That's something that's helping now.

Michael King: [00:06:36] You're welcome listeners. I took away free shipping from you. We did. We went to a dry erase board at work and went through the math and I was like, you got to knock off the free shipping.

Jillian Ryan: [00:06:45] Because it makes sense. Like you said, if they're paying $28 for a spiral notebook, these are not the type of people that care about if they're having a patient, they're not.

So we had backed into it. We also then changed from selling all individual products to putting them together and gift sets. And that way we could again, put high margin items with lower margin items to make those more profitable. And then we broke this shipping out of that, which we were including.

So that's helped as well. But yeah, no. So we had some really good press with the LN stuff. We were also in Real Simple in November and December, and we're doing amazing, which was great, but like I said, we had to fix the profitability issues and then coronavirus hits and we immediately started freaking out because globally, our supply chain was then shut down.

And since March had been our best month yet. Right before it hits, we were then sold out of almost everything, almost everything, which normally is a good problem, but not when you then can no longer get your new products.

Michael King: [00:07:55] So let me just make sure I'm understanding here. You start the business, you're having success in the form of sales and revenue and stuff.

You realize that it's not going to work though, because the margins aren't there.

Jillian Ryan: [00:08:10] Yep.

Michael King: [00:08:12] And with the shipping and with volumes and those kinds of things. And then you meet me.

Jillian Ryan: [00:08:19] Yeah, that's exactly the story I'm telling you.

Michael King: [00:08:22] We had a dry erase board brainstorming session and then all of your problems went away.

Am I tracking correctly?

Jillian Ryan: [00:08:29] That's exactly

Michael King: [00:08:30] okay. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't  exaggerating.

Jillian Ryan: [00:08:35] Okay. So taking the shipping out of there. We then negotiated rates also on, we're currently doing this. With this huge order that just came in. I used the opportunity to then go to UPS to negotiate with them on our rates.

So that's also helping, so all of those kinds of things, I had been so focused for the first four or five years on this is how do we get an attraction to get enough orders to make this thing work? And then we finally realized, wait, that's not the problem. Like the problem is we need to make it more profitable.

Which that's when the economy came out and it was like, wait, no, I know how to do this. Sit there and do it anyways.

Michael King: [00:09:19] Why is that? So you knew in your mind, but you didn't take the time to do that. Let's dive into that a little bit because I think for a lot of early stage entrepreneurs, it can be really easy.

Well. Yeah, I think so. It's, kinda like, cut out cardio going on a bad diet, right? You can't do that. This is the pot calling the kettle here. Um, you get a lot of times from my experience with really early stage entrepreneurs, if you fall in love with this idea of how you're going to contribute to the world, and you get very passionate about it and you're so eager to bring it, but sometimes we don't.

Take just a moment to sit back and make sure it will actually work. And one of the things I've been talking a lot about lately is the importance of not over-planning don't model everything out to that degree. But there is a balance that has to exist between like, let's make sure this thing is financially viable and let's

You know, I talk a lot about the four critical numbers in business revenue, gross profit, net profit, and cash. And so just sit down and take the time to say, look, yes, this is my passion. This is my creative thing. This is how I'm going to do amazing things. Let me just make sure those four numbers work.

Jillian Ryan: [00:10:39] Sure. Well, and I think a lot of what was mine was that I still wasn't confident enough as an entrepreneur and a business leader to really lean into what was working. So I still felt the need to keep throwing a ton of stuff out, seeing what was working, instead of realizing in my gut that I knew corporate was hands down where our focus should be.

So say no to the popups, say no to the individual orders that were killing us over Christmas. When I had first met you, I was like, that's what it was, those orders when they come in onesy twosy was, that’s what was killing us cause then we're also being killed on the shipping and all that kind of stuff and inventory.

Then issues keeping in stock what you need to keep in stock versus what we're doing now with working with bigger corporations on, okay, here we need 2000 of this. We need 500 of this. Like, again, it makes it so much easier on our manpower side too, to where then that right there also makes us more profitable to where we can crank out a whole lot more than we could crank out on the other ones.

Michael King: [00:11:42] So tell me when you were in the middle, in the thick of this. You know, and I know, cause you've told me this before, but share with our listeners when you were in the thick of this, when we first met. What did that feel like? What impact did that scenario have on you as Jillian, the person? What was that like?

Jillian Ryan: [00:12:03] You just feel like a failure. Even though we looked like a success, that was the problem. I was like, we looked like we should have been at the pinnacle. We had just gotten in Ellen's box. We were just in Real Simple, which is a fantastic magazine that apparently a lot of our customers read, cause it did send a ton of traffic our way.

But no, I was worried about how in the world are we going to pay our bills in January and figuring out cash flow has been. So I then kind of always hid from that stuff. So therefore, I didn't feel empowered to actually make decisions and do all of that kind of stuff. Cause it again, I think I took it too personally on if I looked at my cash flow numbers and then started, I was like, I took it as a personal shame versus, Oh, this is a business problem to fix

Michael King: [00:12:51] What do you mean you hid from it?

Jillian Ryan: [00:12:54] I then went, look, I was like, so I would go in, at the beginning of the month, I'd be like, okay, here in a random Excel spreadsheet.

Here's what I know we have coming in. Here's what I think we have going out, and just like back of the envelope, figure stuff out. But I was never remotely sophisticated about it. And again, keep in mind, I was, uh, I was consulting to executives at Google and Exxon. I was like, I could do it for other people.

But as an entrepreneur yourself, like you just get so close to it and you do take it so personally, being able to separate out my self worth with how well the business was doing has been a big growth thing. Reasons why Melissa has been amazing. I didn't realize with us it really was a mindset thing.

Michael King: [00:13:40] So Melissa, because no one other than you, and I noticed this, Melissa is your business coach, and so it sounds like you and Melissa have been working on the mindset of the business owner, the entrepreneurial mindset and how to separate success in the business. How to differentiate, you know, things not going well in the business from Jillian being a failure.

Jillian Ryan: [00:14:07] How to get off that emotional roller coaster that at least in the beginning years of entrepreneurship or insane and sad to say that was what surprised me the most about, I think running your own company, especially as a first time entrepreneur, and I'm not a natural entrepreneur, like I am not a risk taker.

I was like, none of this was natural. So I think the fact that, yeah, let's just say that I was kind of going against that. So secure I am an Enneagram six. I don't know if it means anything to you. But security is literally what I value most. And I dove off into building my own company.

Michael King: [00:14:41] Um, quick tangent for me.

Enneagram is becoming a little bit like CrossFit. It's like one of those like Dino has, you know how you can tell when somebody does CrossFit, they tell you. It's the same thing with Enneagram. Now it's like, do you know how I knew you took the Enneagram test. Because you tell me about it.

Jillian Ryan: [00:15:00] I know it's true, but it's so explained. I was like, that's it. That's exactly it. But anyways, I digress.

Michael King: [00:15:08] What do you think the number one key has been for your mind? Shift your mindset from associating the business's performance with your self worth. What if there's somebody listening that's really struggling with that? And I'll be honest, I've been doing this for years now. I still hit that from time to time.

It's really hard and honestly, it's kind of something that I think that non entrepreneurs don't fully get.

Jillian Ryan: [00:15:35] I didn't until I was to say until I was in it all.

Michael King: [00:15:38] What would you tell people that are listening? Like, Hey, do this.

Jillian Ryan: [00:15:45] My thing was like, I finally had to figure out if I continue tying the two together.

I am never going to feel stable ever. I say the fact that it can change from one minute to the next, and I do like how Melissa always says it happens for you and not to you. It was like, I do feel like that happens a lot. And my thing was we were figuring out I was scared of success was what my thing was.

So I would not push all of these amazing leads that we had come our way to a sale because I was always afraid of looking green, which again, ridiculous. So anyways, so figuring out, I think what helps you differentiate the two is figuring out why you're feeling that way about some things. As I say, I think getting it is really kind of a therapist.

I was like, you need somebody that they business therapists about this kind of stuff to figure out the feelings behind it. And if you don't get to that place, like I feel it is hard to differentiate it so.

Michael King: [00:16:47] It's not uncommon. No, no, that's great. It's really challenging.

You know, because when things are going well, we're more than happy to indulge in that mindset. But you can't have it both ways. You know, you've gotta get in. Boy, it's really hard to do that. So, you started working with Melissa. Well, first you met me and then the reason you found Melissa was because of Mr. Wonderful on shark tank. All things go through Michael King. So, just a quick humblebrag there. You meet me, then I introduce you to Melissa, and then great things are happening, right? You're changing your paradigms.

Jillian Ryan: [00:17:31] March was hands down the best month before now that we had had.

And we had just come off again, a great two, four that wasn't that profitable, that sales themselves were amazing, but it was all individual sales. So profitability was not that great. But then in March, like we ended up getting a big deal with Real Simple. The magazine itself, like their whole marketing team bought a bunch of stuff.

And so we had all of these things in the works, a bunch of other big deals in the works we had this conference in Dallas that we had gone to, that we did 10 times what we typically do at a pop up. It was, I mean, the point where I had to run back to the office and grab all the rest of our inventory to go run over there.

And so where we had made amazing connections, like the CSR at Toyota, like literally amazing connections and then coronaviruses like literally the next week. So it did send me into a tailspin cause I was like, wait a second. We have been working at this for five years. We finally are figuring this out.

Everything's working. We're having hypergrowth, made all the right connections with people I had been looking to get into around here for forever. And then it just is all shut down. So that was one. Melissa was great. She was like, you're hiding. Because I then was like, so. Just for listeners. So ours, the whole supply chain, um, all paper stuff's made in upstate New York, shut down.

All of our other products, which we sold out of Haiti, nothing can get out. Same thing in Rwanda where we have all of our up-cycling horn stuff. Nothing can get out. And like I said, I had just wiped out the entire office of inventory at that pop up. So I'm like, what are we going to do?

Like, we can't get any of our products. We definitely can't do any of these big corporate deals cause one, nobody's doing the deals. They're all trying to see how this plays out. Um, and I was just paralyzed cause I was like, I don't know what to sell them if I can't get any of our stuff. And so thankfully I did get on a phone call with you and Melissa.

And she was like, okay, let's think outside the box here. Like, let's think about what you can get. So I ended up then that kind of roused me into getting busy again. And so then I just start thinking. I was like, wait, this is a fantastic way to help my other small business owner friends.

Because my problem wasn't demand. By this point, a few weeks in companies had kind of adjusted and were no longer paralyzed and they were realizing quickly that they needed to do something to stay in front of their clients. So we had so many companies reaching out about wanting to send client gifts, wanting to send employee gifts, their employees that are now working from home.

A lot of our stuff is coming now from events that have been canceled, and so therefore they want to send out gifts to people at home. So demand wasn't our problem or the supply. So she was like, let's see what we can get. And I was like, wait, this is actually a fantastic way to help several other small business owners that I knew that their demand had dried up.

So we reached out to a candle company that we know here in the Dallas area to source candles from them. We sourced essential oils from this great company that I love and Ft Worth. They work with trafficking survivors in India, but they'd had plenty of stock and stock. And so we put together these two gift kits.

One was an at home productivity kit and one was at home wellness kit. And then I did one round of emails out and then it just kind of, it was insane how much demand that we had for those. So we ended up landing, like Politico came like it, it was crazy. Um, I would say ordering, ordering out.

So like I said, we also ended up getting through all of that, a huge order from Teach for America came to us, which they're advertising it, so I can not talk about it. Um, so they came to us and were like, we would like, we had to cancel our big teacher appreciation events. We would love to send gift boxes to all of our teachers.

And so basically we put together four different options. It freed us up. Instead of just having to look at what we had in inventory, we could basically, sky's the limit because we're like, what other small businesses can we work with that we can help?  So gave them the four options. They then gave the teachers the four options, and then, yeah, my operations managers shipped 700 boxes out of her house this week.

So it's been, it's been great.

Michael King: [00:22:07] So let me make sure I understand. So your supply chain evaporated. Like almost overnight. Yeah. And so what you could have done is right with no inventory, because you're coming off of the highest high you've ever had. Right. And so, you know, you wake up one day, the rug is just ripped out from underneath you.

And the first response is, I can't believe this happened to me. I can't believe I just solved it. And like, you know, I mean, for me, I would have been like forget this, the gods are aligning to tell me, you Michael, go home. Go find a job.

Jillian Ryan: [00:22:48] That can not enter your brain. Yeah.

Michael King: [00:22:50] And so, I think what the takeaway here is, is you didn't know the answer.

So you called on your network, the people around you, and you said, Hey, let's collaborate. What can I do? And what you ended up doing was saying, Hey, there's other people that their supply has, or their demand has evaporated because of this. And so you said, well, let me find some of those people that have the kinds of goods that my clients want.

Michael King: [00:23:17] Let me pull them all together like a backup of a basket, so to speak, and then resell them. And the result of that is more business, more.

Jillian Ryan: [00:23:27] We've always sourced some other products, but not a ton, just because again, you always think the margins are better when you can produce it yourself.

But that's not always the case. So, we probably did, I would say before it was about 80% our products, 20% others. I'm actually kind of liking this split now a lot better. I was like, it's nice to be able to, because then I'm not stuck with the inventory. So basically I can pitch out to my corporate clients what really does work well for them.

And then they love the service that we do. They also love to give back cause we do our own give back on, like I said, the teaching. Um, business classes to trafficking survivors here in Dallas. They love that. Being able to support other small businesses as well. Like it just makes for a really good feel, good story.

And especially now, I think as companies where budgets are getting slashed, especially in, they're worried about keeping their clients like they need this money to be doing both. So it's been a fantastic way for companies to give back with money they're already spending. And it just says really good things about their company to the people they're sending them to.

So I actually think now that we are better positioned in a virus world than we were previously, just because, like I said, I think big events are probably done for a little while. Speaking engagements, pop ups, all the stuff that we had been doing.  But yeah, now, like I said, demand has been insane. So, but yes, I could have also sat here thinking, nobody wants this stuff. No companies are spending any money. And again, that was not remotely the case.

Michael King: [00:25:12] That's awesome. What advice would you have for an early stage entrepreneur that's stuck right now in similar ways as you, the the ways that you were

Jillian Ryan: [00:25:25]  My favorite piece of advice that I typically love to give that I always fall back on is that you don't have to be the smartest. You just have to persevere the longest. So that's always been my thing. I was like, no, giving up is not an option. Like. I'm always willing to pivot, but you cannot sit around with that idea giving up.

And it's always a good gut check for me too, when I do start thinking of doing just, I mean, I took a big pay cut to do this and you might just want to go back and try to find a corporate social responsibility job, and I'll start looking at job descriptions that way. That is not at all what I want to do.

I do love this, even though it's turning me gray. So yeah, so you don't have to be the smartest person

Jillian Ryan: [00:26:07] It's true. I could just shave it.

Michael King: [00:26:09] You can just shave your head like me. I don't have to have anybody ever telling me anything about gray hair. No gray hair. Youthfulness will never leave me because I have a shaved head.

Jillian Ryan: [00:26:23] I think, I'm not gonna not gonna follow that advice.

Michael King: [00:26:26] Why do you love entrepreneurship so much? Why is there no other option for you?

Jillian Ryan: [00:26:31] It's something, I did love in consulting is the fact that it is different every day.  That is something I definitely thrive on. And now that I don't take it quite as personally, like the challenges themselves, it is kind of fun being able to be steering the ship on figuring out the issues to these problems and like, I just don't think I could now go back to having, especially the bureaucracy of a bigger job.

I was like, I like when customers call and they say, well, can I do this part from this box and part from this box? And you know, they're always expecting you to say no and you're like, yes.  I like being nimble as a startup. I was like, that part I don't want to change. So now I do love it would say, you're still master of your own destiny this way, which is nice. Sink or swim.

Michael King: [00:27:23] I feel like it's a lot like having kids. I don't have kids, but I imagine it would be a lot like having kids, you know, it can be the most rewarding thing. It can be the most stressful thing. It can be the most exhilarating and amazing thing. It can be the shittiest thing, and it can be all those things in one day.

Jillian Ryan: [00:27:48] within like 10 minutes.

It makes you feel like a crazy person.

Michael King: [00:27:53] I can't argue with that. There are times when it makes you feel like a crazy person because you're just all over the map, but learning how to kind of be the master of those emotions and you know, recognizing them, identifying them, okay, this is how I'm feeling. And then, you know, kind of sitting with that for a second and then kind of forcing yourself to not respond to it, you know, like acknowledge it and move on.

Jillian Ryan: [00:28:18] Because that has been what we were talking about earlier. I think why now I feel like I handle things a little better than I used to, um, was because then I sat there and figured out why am I taking this so personally? Like what is it about this? What is this making me feel that I don't like? And then normally, yeah, if you acknowledge it and you can figure out what it is, it's much easier to then put aside and say, I'm just

Michael King: [00:28:46] your words, not mine. So the company is Marie Mae.com So explain to us one more time. Who is who, who needs to be looking at you and what problems do you solve for them?

Jillian Ryan: [00:29:02] In a nutshell, we do corporate gifting that gives back, and so I was tired of getting ridiculous swag that nobody likes and companies spend millions and millions of dollars on this stuff that people were living in hotel rooms.

And so I was like, what if we won. Give people products they actually liked. That is a quality that they like and it doesn't look like marketing swag. It looks like a gift. But then also gave companies a way to give back with money they were already spending. So, we do corporate gifting and we handle it from beginning to end.

So you don't have to also staff up, keep inventory and all that kind of stuff. Like Teach for America one, she was like, I don't know what I would have done if I had to order all these different products and send out 700 boxes from my house. Basically we handle it for them. We also do a corporate gifting monthly service, and so it's helped some of our smaller clients be really intentional with their gifting to do it all year long versus just at Christmas time, which anyways, but I've got lots of theories on that, but it does really, I always thought before I got into this niche, I always thought you had to be a big company before you decided to start doing this kind of stuff. But I actually would argue that it's the smaller companies that definitely need to be gifting, and it needs to be a gift, not marketing swine material. Exactly. But it cannot be crappy things with you, it can't look like they worked for them.

Michael King: [00:30:29] So Jillian, you were also telling me about the Marie Mae business school that you're involved with. What is that all about?

Jillian Ryan: [00:30:35] Yes. So for every gift that is purchased from Marie Mae, we provide an hour of business classes for trafficking survivors and domestic abuse victims here in Dallas.

So we work with them on all practical stuff such as job interviews, skills. How do you, business finances, putting their resume together. How, if they want to put together a side hustle, what that looks like physically career coaching. This is what we've been doing.

Michael King: [00:31:03] That's awesome. So, as you know, I recently launched Business Money Made Simple monthly, and it's a three prong program where a prong one is every month we have a kind of business school type of topics that are mostly focused on the financial side of business.

So it's an hour of me teaching deep on something  with handouts and all that kind of stuff. And then every two weeks we go live on Facebook and we teach on something that is business, personal development or leadership. And then we also do a weekly Q and A. Carlos is a CPA on my team and we go live and answer any kind of business money questions that you have.

So it's the training, it's the live events every two weeks. And it's the weekly Q and A. I would love to give five annual subscriptions to Business Money Made Simple monthly. To your students. But I'd love for you to do is I'll give you a link after go have them sign up and, love to have five students in Business Money Made Simple monthly out of the Marina business school.

How does that sound?

Jillian Ryan: [00:32:08] Oh, they'd love it. I was like, there's especially one that she's working on. She wants to be an executive assistant, like a virtual assistant, but started a company on that. This would be perfect.

Michael King: [00:32:17] it will be a perfect score. Yup. Awesome. So Mariemae.com and I know you're also an Instagram under at MarieMae.

Jillian Ryan: [00:32:26] It's MarieMae company

Michael King: [00:32:27] where you mae company, and then you were telling me you've got a special deal for our listeners.

Jillian Ryan: [00:32:32] I do. We have a special discount code for your listeners. If they'll go to www.mariemae.com/inthetrenches,

Michael King: [00:32:40] www.mariemae.com/inthetrenches and what's the special deal?

Jillian Ryan: [00:32:46] It's 15% off everything, and then we also do.

Free strategy sessions on there that are an hour long zoom call that kind of help you walk through how your specific business could use Herbert gifting as a strategy. That's, our big thing is you shouldn't be strategic with your corporate gifting versus just running out at the last minute, buying fruit baskets from Costco.

Michael King: [00:33:08] Awesome. So we didn't talk about this, but what I would like to do is the first person that goes to Marie Mae dot com slash in the trenches, and they get their order. It's 15% off. I will give an additional one hundred dollars. Off of their order. So you go ahead and give them a hundred dollars off of that order, let me know.

And, I will Venmo that hundred dollars over to you because I love what you guys do. I've received some of their swag and it's really good quality. Like there's a reason that your company is blowing up the way that it has. The quality is phenomenal. And I also love the give back component as well.

So www.mariemae.com/inthetrenches, get your 15% off. And then,  Jillian's going to give you an additional refund of 100 dollars, and then,I would love it whoever gets that, if you take a picture of it and then tag,  I am Michael King in there, I dot am dot Michael dot King on Instagram.

That would be great.  Jillian, thank you so much for coming today. This was good. I'm so glad to hear you're crushing it now.

Jillian Ryan: [00:34:15] Thank you.